brub
Member
OP
Can you share a link?
TGTsoooft
By chichigirl46
2,513 views
68 replies
brub
Member
You guys should just take this to e-mail, the novelty of your fights is getting thin.
another_user
Member
I have that patch only for WinXP with SP1,.. <br />If anyone wants it??
brub
Member
Whatever Frogboy said.....it´s true.
chichigirl46
Member
Frogboy...... I´m not surprised that you can make "Rules" to not "Hijack" threads on your own site and not live by those rules at all any where else... This thread was asking on "how to skin msstyles" using TGTsoft application !!!! <br /> <br />The last time on this message board I emailed you privately to settle our differences and "you refused" and proceeded to....... <br /> <br />1. ´Exile" my status at Wincustomize down to visitor level with NO access to my own profile, or any privileges other then downloading, even though I have never put down any of your programs, and have supported them on my personal site that I pay for and skinned your WBlinds for over three years! <br /> <br />2. You said you are going to block my Paid subscription to my Object Desktop and refund the remaining monies, until you found out legally you can not do that. <br /> <br />3. You also said any further support help to Object Desktop has STOPPED any can not email Stardock for any reason..... <br /> <br />4. You also said I can not "Renew" my subscription to Object Desktop when it expires! <br /> <br />All of this was over a dumb "NEWS POST" that you made at WC and I made a thread here at skinbase to discuss it. Still your site continues bashing others, but you can come here and interrupt another thread I made discussing another program that does not have anything to do with any of your Stardock programs......... Again this thread was asking on "how to skin msstyles" using TGTsoft application !!!! <br /> <br />Why on earth would you care what I´m running or paying for on my computer? <br /> <br />Why is it okay for Frogboy to tell me it´s okay to "HACK" for free manually the "UXtheme.dll" to skin my windows in msstyles, but it´s not okay for some one to get a warez Stardock program, is there a difference? <br /> <br />Lastly....... on your post´s above, are you inferring that I have alias nick names? I feel no need for any reason to have any other nick name other then chichigirl any where on the net, I don´t feel the need to confuse others of who I am........... <br />
imtoomuch
Member
I didn´t know it was that time already! The monthly Frogboy vs. Chici argument. Are you two secretly in love? Seriously, it´s getting old. <br /> <br />Anyway, who cares if StyleXP "hacks" WindowsXP. Lots of apps hack into the OS. And TGT still offers the dll that is free so you don´t have to buy Style XP if you don´t want to. StyleXP is only $20 bucks and it is easier to use than the patch. So the ease of use is worth the $20 to some people. It´s all preference. Some people like WB and some like StyleXP. And Frogboy, I don´t think you need to post a reply that is 2 or 3 typed pages long unless you are that insecure about WindowBlinds. I mean if StyleXP sucks so bad and does nothing as you claim, then you have no reason to worry about competiton right? <br /> <br />I am not pro-TGT or pro-Stardock. Neither am I anti-TGT or anti-Stardock. I have tried both WB and StyleXP and like them both. I see the benefits and drawbacks of each. Like I said before, it´s a matter of preference.
frogboy
Member
My posts were on topic. It was a post about Style XP that talked about how it was being "Bashed" and you went so far as to mention how all this bashing was started by "one man". And that criticism of Style XP was about "competition bashing". <br /> <br />My post addressed why people "Bashed" TGTSoft and Style XP. The title of the post is TGTSoft. It is clearly on topic. <br /> <br />If you disagree with that, please feel free to contact an admin or moderator.
frogboy
Member
imtomuch, Apparently my post was too lengthy for you to actually read? <g> <br /> <br />Seriously though, not only did I not argue that people shouldn´t use it. I actually said that if you want to use msstyles, then use the free patch. No where did I say or imply that Style XP "sucks". Style XP does what it does. TGT Soft has nothing to do with the strengths and weaknesses of msstyles. <br /> <br />I don´t know about you but I generally make my determination of what a post was about based on its content, not its length. <br /> <br />I suppose I should be thankful that we can´t change fonts or I would be opened up to cahrges that my choice of Arial demonstrates insecurity too. ;)
Edited
imtoomuch
Member
First off - you are right, I did not read everything you have to said. What you have to say isn´t really that important to me. <br /> <br /> But I never said you were posting off topic nor did I say "all this bashing was started by "one man"."
frogboy
Member
Re "off topic", I was responding to ChiChiGirl who claimed that I was hijacking her TGTSoft thread by talking about...TGTSoft. <br /> <br />Re "what you care about" Perhaps I´m just mis-reading you but that comment seemed kind of rude. Am I just misreading your post?
Edited
imtoomuch
Member
Hrm I guess that did sound rude. It was not meant to be. What I meant was that I´m not gonna take the time to read that entire post. I usually won´t read a post that long nomatter who wrote it.
cuttheredwire
Member
I read the whole thing, was there for question request, was there for the flame war, took part in it, and even had a private corospnadance with Frogboy. I was in the middle of that one. >:} Some things I agree with, others I don´t. I don´t recall a lot of the news groups stuff ever being mentioned, and a few other things seem inconsistant. Probly just my memory, but I think stuff like that I would remember. I do recall the false account thing, and the "skinner challenge" tgt did that basically said we all sucked. It was a long time ago, and it didn´t sway my nuetrality then, nor does it now. <br /> <br />The fact that chichi is banned is another matter that might if I knew details. Non of my business really, but she is a very good friend of mine. It also disturbs me after it seems she´s been helpful to wb with bug reports, customer loyalty, and years of skinning. Just doesn´t amke sense.
another_user
Member
[Off topic] <br />Sorry but i this is all very funny, frog if you really did that to chicki why??!?! 8O <br />She´s a paying customer!! I only use the free stardock produkts (ObjectDock and CursorXP) (thanks Stardock for giving me these great FREE aplications :smile) So if i WE had problems you always could ban me but not a paying customer, that´s just weird..... ... <br />[/ Off topic] <br /> <br />I think Microsoft did a great job with their VS system (clap clap clap) and it runs way faster than WB does (atleast on my systems) and Tgtsoft also did a great job (clap clap clap) for making a program that alows me ( i don´t use it tho) change the wallpaper, logon screen and Visual style all in one handy app.(works way better than default Display properties).. <br /> <br />One thing to ad to this, <br />My systems are pretty good, Athlon 1900+ (1.6 Ghz) and a (P4 1.8Ghz) <br />both have 1024 Mb´s Ddr-Mem and a 128Mb Asus 2400Ti Vcard and Windowblinds makes everything run slower (sluggish?).. <br />Something i don´t see when i use Microsoft Visual Styles patched by Tgtsoft... <br />Easy choise right?? <br /> <br />(Froggy if you want to react on this, lets don´t do it here,... ) <br /> <br />Another_User (@hccnet.nl) <br /> <br /> <br />
moshi
Member
she is talking about StyleXP. the company that distributes this is put down as they sell just a hacked dll, that allows WindowsXP to use unsigned msstyles. <br />as this is not really a program, but something that can be hacked in 3 minutes (as i did) they deserve to be put down. <br />XP´s native skinning engine is great though :)
another_user
Member
Chichi are all your questions answered?? :smile:
chickie
Member
Another off topic... Sorry, Chichi. I want an answer about ObjectBar & WinBlinds. <br /> <br />Frogboy, I purchased ObjectBar. When I used ObjectBar, it clashes with WinBlinds. Why? I have Windows 98. I´m waiting for WinBlinds 4 to come out. Will WinBlinds 4 look like XP? I read the latest news. I understood it, but wasn´t sure. Please tell me why ObjectBar isn´t stable & compatible with WinBlinds.
frogboy
Member
Brub: Beware of moral equivalence. Have I written anything in this thread that could be considered a flame of ChiChigirl? Even one sentence? So please don´t treat me as if I am somehow participating in some sort of flame war. <br /> <br />CutTheWired: The nastiest stuff of the TGTSoft "flamewars" were actually on Usenet. The deviantART stuff was only a tiny part of it all. The fake users TGTSoft used were a big thing, but they weren´t caught until later. <br /> <br />The reason the fake users are such a big deal, to me anyway, is because everytime I´d post on deviantART or some other site during that time, all these users would appear out of nowhere, having never posted before, brand new on dA or Neowin, etc. and flame the heck out of me and WindowBlinds and all things Stardock. And that is where people like ChiChiGirl probably get the impression that it was "me vs. all the Style XP users" because TGTSoft´s peopel wouldn´t post as themselves, but use fakes. <br /> <br />On Usenet and other places, the IP address from where you´re posting from is part of the post and so they were eventually caught. And then, seemingly overnight, the flames stopped. That´s why you don´t see Style XP flame wars today. What changed? I´m still here obviously. Style XP still exists. So what happened? The seemingly endless parade of fake users jumping onto message boards flaming everything WindowBlinds/praising everything TGT Soft stopped after they got caught. <br /> <br />Chickie: I´m afraid I´m not sure why you´re having problems with ObjectBar. ObjectBar and WindowBlinds work fine together, they don´t conflict in any way. I´d suggest contacting support and seeing if they can help. I suspect that the issue is Windows 98, it´s really not well suited to heavy customization unfortunately. <br /> <br />As for why ChiChiGirl got banned, she knows why. But take a close look at this thread. I responded to this thread with a lengthy on topic response. I took considerable time, as you can imagine, to write up a pretty accurate history of why people flamed Style XP and TGTSoft and go to lengths to point out what it does. Similarly, if Nullsoft had run around implying that MP3s should be called Winamp songs, you would have people pointing out often that "Winamp songs" are MP3s. It wouldn´t be a flame to point that out. Just as it´s not a flame to point out that Style XP doesn´t actually do anything. The quality of msstyles, their features, etc. have nothing to do with TGTSoft. That was the crux of my post. It had nothing against ChiChigirl in it at all. And look at how she responded. <br /> <br />I realize that we live in a "Blame less" society but it really doesn´t take 2 to have a flame war. It really only takes 1 person.
frogboy
Member
Another_User: I suspect if you polled 1000 people who had used WindowBlinds 4 and msstyles (via patching uxtheme.dll themselves or using a program like Style XP) that 900 of them would say that WindowBlinds 4 is faster. <br /> <br />WindowBlinds 3 vs. msstyles was very system dependent and very dependent on the skin. But WindowBlinds 4 is mcuh faster than msstyles in almost every way and it´s not very hardware dependent. WB 4 has all the speed advantages that msstyles has from it´s XP integration plus it caches drawing, uses hardware acceleration, and has smart painting. <br /> <br />I would agree with you that WB 3 vs. msstyles it really depends on the person. But I am unaware of any system or any configuration in which WB 4 doesn´t seem noticeably faster than msstyles when running a similar skin. Even msstyles fans/authors on Neowin agree with that.
chickie
Member
Frog, I emailed Stardock. I´m waiting for the response. <br /> <br />TGTsoft, MSstyles & WinBlinds looks the same to me. Take a closer look, it´s the XP taskbars changes colors & styles. So what? The programs - MSstyles & WinBlinds are different programs. Different programs. ObjectBar is like original taskbars, but it´s skinned. Why the fuss? MSstyles & WindowBlinds just change differently, but almost the same. I´m not gonna get into this fight or whatever. I´m just saying what´s on my mind. I don´t have XP. WinBlinds is the only thing I could have. I wish I have XP. I will still get WinBlinds. It depends on your comp. Please don´t yell at me for this horseshit. Thanx for hearing me out.
frogboy
Member
Actually WindowBlinds and msstyles are significantly different. To use an analogy, Photoshop and MS Paint both let you paint stuff. But the capabilities of the two are considerably different. <br /> <br />[off topic] <br />Here´s a link to an article that talks about what WB can do http://www.windowblinds.net/wb4/ <br />[/off topic]
chickie
Member
Off topic again... <br />Could I use WinBlind 4 skins for 3.5 version?
chickie
Member
Nevermind that question. LOL <br /> <br />Frog, Why does WinBlinds 3.5 looks like shit when I downloaded updated or WinBlinds 4 skins? For instance, I got the "Tiffany" skin. The start button looks like shit.
frogboy
Member
Chickie: Main reason is that skin authors on Windows XP aren´t doing much to support Windows 9x Start bars. It´s not a change in the sofwtare, it´s in the skin itself.
another_user
Member
Froggy: (gues you don´t mind..).. <br /> <br />"I would agree with you that WB 3 vs. msstyles it really depends on the person." <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br />You know what i mean?? it doesn´t feel natural, okay i´m a "fast clicker" but it gives me a non natural feeling,.. <br /> <br />"But I am unaware of any system or any configuration in which WB 4 doesn´t seem noticeably faster than msstyles when running a similar skin. Even msstyles fans/authors on Neowin agree with that. " <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br />I haven´t tested WB4 yet, but offcourse i will,.. :smile: <br />I must say that i know alot of happy WB users and that´s good,.. <br />(maybe after testing WB4 you have another one) <br />As a bystander (8 posts ago i was an observer for a long time on many custo sites) i think it´s better for you to not always....how do you say that... ehm...react on things like this, tgtsoft, it´s not good publisity for Stardock, becouse you always gave me a feeling that your doing one big promotional thingy for the company.... <br /> <br />5 Last things, <br />I don´t have anything against you or Stardock <br />I don´t wanna insult / attack / bash you or anyone else in any way <br />I know that my english sucks but i´m really trying :-) <br />I know i´m good lookin and everyone loves me so know butt kissing please... <br />Damn, did i actually say that :P <br /> <br />And i really want to use this smiley " :finger " couse it looks cool... <br /> :P <br /> <br />GreetZzz to ya´ll, <br />Another_User <br /> <br />"Let´s all do a group hug"
xenu
Member
L O L :) <br /> <br />wow i dont have thaaaaaaaaaat much time, but i like it when somone is precise ;-) :brb :brb :brb :brb
hobnobber
Member
Try this one /brub: <br />http://www.tgtsoft.com/
craeonics
Member
Listen to moshi. The reason why "StylesXP" seems to work so well is because it uses WindowsXP´s <b>built-in</b> skin system, so no wonder it works well with Explorer and what not.
cuttheredwire
Member
Ya, but that in itself is beautiful, I must admit. They give out the dll, and sell an app to make and change the skins. I think it should all be free, but I always do. You can do it for free, if you know what youare doing. I think there was an app to replace tgt´s one, but I don´t know what happened to it. I don´t have xp, so I had no use for it. Virtual Plastic http://www.virtualplastic.net has info on this some place, but I forget where. <br /> <br />Funny thing is I don´t know exactly how to do this. Probly because I´ve never done it before. It just seems really fuzzy to me. Oh well. Lotsa ppl know how to do it, so I´m hoping they´ll be more helpful. ^.^;
pk
Member
Well, reshacker does the job too :-) Only problem is that these msstyles resource files are kinde huge (a lot of pictures & strings etc)... the TGT soft app just makes it easyer to manage & build a visual style
cuttheredwire
Member
TGT also has a reshacker they made for free. It even handles alpha trans which is tricky in reshacker. I hear it´s pretty good, but never got around to trying it.
another_user
Member
I used stylexp before it was a "program", in the beginning it was just a patch (changing the original Uxheme.dll with a changed one) <br />now the Uxtheme.dll gets patched in memory (patched version gets loaded in memory) I now change the file myself when i reinstal windows... <br />A lot of people i know use styleXP and all get some problems now and then, the "all GUI elements get black" bug seems fixed but now and then after starting up Windows the Win9x theme gets loaded, i think that´s because the file patching in memory happens "to late".... (hope i´m making sense :, ) <br />It´s a great (and skinnable!!!) app tho.. <br />
chichigirl46
Member
They have a 30 day trial period and it is a "application/software that is an .exe and installs itself with an uninstall included..... If they are selling a application what I don´t understand is that every one keeps saying it´s hacking a dll, but it´s a program that adds a patch to the "UXtheme.dll" I don´t see how that is hacking, many programmers add patches to their software etc......If Microsoft did not like it and thought it was illeagel to do so and this TGTsoft is making monies, why haven´t they done anything about it? It´s an excellent program that skins the windows exceptionally clear, does not bog down my computer, not a memory hog, actually my computer runs faster and smoother with this program....... All I see is the put down on this great program is a competition play on the message boards. I feel this program is far better then what I have been using for the last 3 years...... My honest opinion don´t knock it until you have tried it and see for yourself what it´s all about :-)
chichigirl46
Member
correction=illegal
chichigirl46
Member
Another_User..... W9x? If your saying W98 it is only for WXP....... correct me if I´m wrong....
chichigirl46
Member
moshi -----> she is talking about StyleXP. the company that distributes this is put down as they sell just a hacked dll, that allows WindowsXP to use unsigned msstyles. <br /> <br />When TGTsoft/StylesXP first came out I read all the wars on the message boards started by one man and other´s jumped in that I call followers.... I see it as competitor put down......
robohead
Member
Chichi, what they´re getting at is that you can change the msstyles yourself without using StyleXP as the front end. You can patch the uxtheme.dll yourself and then load all of the same themes you see in StyleXP through the standard display settings already used in windows. Were you aware of that? :-) <br /> <br />My opinion is StyleXP is a nice app for people that don´t know how or don´t want to patch their files manually. I cannot even fathom my mom ´hacking´ her system files, so an app like this would be great for her. It also does more than just change the msstyle´s. It can change the log on screen and the wallpaper as well. I think it´s a bit expensive for what it does. It should be free or at least bundled with StyleBuilder (at no additional cost). But all in all, it´s not the evil app it´s made out to be.
chichigirl46
Member
Oh, thanks robo :-) but yes I did know about doing it manually, but I´m a person who likes to pay for the program to help support the programmers, I wasn´t looking to have a free bee, thank you for your intrest........ What I was trying to ask here is there any way to skin this application with out using StyleBuilder and do it manually, I´ve tried looking for tutorials, but no luck :-) Are you still into this program? Have any links to tutorials that I can´t find, would appreciate it......... <br /> <br />Hey by the way where have you been hiding, haven´t seen you in a long time :-)
craeonics
Member
Whep, you can make your styles manually, but its a <b>severe</b> pain in the ass to do so. Best stick with StyleBuilder.
another_user
Member
chichigirl46, i mean the 2nd WinXP default theme, I think t´s called "classic" that´s <br />why i call it 9x..... :smile:
chichigirl46
Member
Oh, ok another_User I hear you :-) <br /> <br />Craeonics that sounds like good advice, I´m not sure if I want to skin again or not, when you get burnt twice it gives you the idea to just walk away and enjoy other skinners work for a change :-)
cuttheredwire
Member
Sidenote to Chichi: Take a look at this site: http://wint.virtualplastic.net :and we can start talking some serious customization. 8) I can also explain why it´s called a hacked file if you like.
frogboy
Member
ChiChi, there´s another side to this story actually. <br /> <br />What actually happened is that on the Microsoft news groups back when Windows XP was still in beta the guys at TGTSoft began writing about how they had written a "native" Windows XP skinning program and implied how it wasn´t a "bloated hack" like WindowBlinds. <br /> <br />What they didn´t say is that their program actually did nothing other than patch out the security for Microsoft digital signatures in uxtheme.dll. In other words, at first they were claiming Style XP was a skinning program (hence why it´s called Style XP rather than say Visual Style Enabler or something). <br /> <br />When it did come out that they weren´t making a skinning program but rather a patch that disabled the MS digital signing req on a .msstyle, they argued that it didn´t matter because unlike WindowBlinds, which they and their followers again implied was bloated because it uses system hooks, Style XP was free and that companies like Stardock were just afraid of them opening up skinning to everyone. <br /> <br />This went on for quite awhile mostly on Usenet. All these "supporters" would show up out of no where, attack WindowBlinds, praise Style XP and all the while it slowly permeated the Internet that Style XP was actually a skinning program rather than just a security hack. Consider that -- there are sites that have Style XP sections even though Style XP isn´t doing anything. It doesn´t apply the skin. It doesn´t draw the skin. Yet people to this day think it´s a full blown skinning program. <br /> <br />Over time, this stuff spilled over into the skinning community sites like WinCustomize, deviantART, etc. And this is around the time ChiChiigirl no doubt first heard of it. And by then, things had gotten pretty nasty. TGTSoft employees were logging onto websites and on Stardock´s news groups and on Usenet as fake users writing about how great Style XP was and how buggy WindowBlinds was. I don´t use fake users, so I woudl respond myself. Hence, why Chichigirl no doubt came away with the impression that I was out to "Bash" the competition. Just something to consider -- you may get upset with me at times because of the things I post to you but imagine how you´d feel about me if a half dozen people were ruthlessly attacking you month after month and then you learned that it was all actually me posting under alias accounts? And even after they got caught and admitted it, when they were asked about why we were against them in an interview on dA they personally attacked me, calling me "paranoid". <br /> <br />Keep that in perspective, after they had already gotten caught and admitted to using fake users on newsgroups and such, they try to shirk that off by calling me names. So I say to you, you can imagine how we feel about the ethics of these guys. I take a lot of heat on message boards that I could easily get around if I just created some fake accounts and posted as that. But we don´t. We post as ourselves and take the heat. You deleted all your WB skins for instance and why? Because of an argument with me. I could just as easily created fake users to do my bashing. Just like these guys did to WindowBlinds with their fake users. <br /> <br />Anyway, thanks to IP traces, TGTSoft got caught with the fake users and they pretty much disappeared after that from most of the sites. But they have continued, even on their current site, to imply how "other" skinning solutions (i.e. WindowBlinds) are inherently slower because they use system hooks. Indeed, WB does use system hooks while Style XP does not. So technically that´s true but it´s only true because Style XP doesn´t actually skin anything -- it relies on what´s in Windows XP which (tada) uses the same system hooks as WindowBlinds does. <br /> <br />It should also be noted that beta versions of Style XP not only patched uxtheme.dll but patched it to accept .msstyles with *executable* code in them. Yet when confronted on this, they publicly denied it until it was demonstrated that yes, indeed, their patch was doing just what people had said it was doing. So then they went to their current system which patches the DLL in RAM rather than on the physical disk. <br /> <br />What was REALLY galling was that they implied that Microsoft was "okay" with what they were doing when we knew for a fact that Microsoft didn´t approve of it at all. In fact, the first company to make it possible to use msstyles natively wasn´t TGTSoft. It was Stardock. In May of 2001 when Microsoft turned on the digital signing in the XP Beta (then called Whistler) we whipped up a program that disabled it as a system service. Microsoft asked us to not release it as they didn´t want other people making msstyles for support reasons. So we didn´t release it. So ironically, the only reason why Style XP even exists is because we respected Microsoft´s IP rights and TGTSoft didn´t. <br /> <br />But THEN, after months of their fans calling us greedy for charging for WindowBlinds and having built this fan base on sites like Neowin.net and on Usenet who talked up how great Style XP was because it was free and how anything Stardock said was just because we were afraid of their "free" alternative, they began charging for Style XP. And ultimately, all Style XP is is a program that patches out the digital signing security in uxtheme.dll in RAM and provides a skin switching interface (which already exists in display properties). It´s Microsoft´s code doing all the work. We´re talking an hour´s worth of code time, tops (We know, we did it first afterall <g>) to disable the uxtheme.dll protection. <br /> <br />So of course they get bashed. Look at specifically what they are doing: They are charging money for a program that essentially disables Microsoft´s digital signing protection on msstyles. TGTSoft didn´t create the format, make the engine, etc. Their value add is basically nil. Heck, the logon changing they now bundle they didn´t even make, they just took an existing freeware one and put it in. <br /> <br />If TGTSoft had simply been honest from the start, you wouldn´t have had these "flame wars". But instead, they not only started by claiming that Style XP was a real skinning program, but right along with it put down WindowBlinds as a "bloasted" and "slow" And then Talking about how they have no overhead and such (even though msstyles use megabytes more RAM than WindowBlinds skins) If you use Dejanews (Google Groups) you can find some of this stuff still where they were posting that. <br /> <br />The charge that we were competition-bashing is quite unfair I believe. After all, Themeatic, who made Chrome, a *direct* competitor to WindowBlinds we always got along well together and I would cover in my various primers of the time and such and I regularly posted positive things about on Skinz.org and elsewhere. And WinCustomize hosts Litestep, SysMetrix, and many other program themes that compete with Stardock´s software. And of course the very fact that they are seen as "the competition" in the first place. It´s kind of like saying that the people who make those serial number generators for WindowBlinds are competitors too. <br /> <br />But that in a nutshell is why Style XP gets bashed. They charge $20 for a program that doesn´t really do very much. And along the way they have done things that can be described, at best, as ethically gray. <br /> <br />Or in short, there are two sides to every story.
Edited
frogboy
Member
BTW ChiChi, I took the liberty of finding one of the examples from DejaNews: <br /> <br />http://groups.google.com/groups?q=TGTSoft+Gus+Fake&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=%2349wkficBHA.716%40tkmsftngp05&rnum=2 <br /> <br />For awhile, all sorts of brand new users started showing up on deviantART, Neowin, and even Stardock´s own internal news groups. This particular post took place on Microsoft´s own server. <br /> <br />"Gus" had been one of the various people pretending to be an objective third party observer who bashed WindowBlinds, promoted Style XP. He went under many names. You may not like me ChiChi, but I post as myself. Life would be much easier if I simply made a bunch of fake users and jumped on people. <br /> <br />Anyway, it came out that .msstyles files were just DLLs renamed and that when you applied the patch, .msstyles files could contain executable code which means you could insert viruses into them if you wanted. We assumed that this was a bug in XP itself, a minor oversight by Microsoft that they didn´t bother to fix sinc ethey had digital signing proteciton. <br /> <br />So then this "Gus" guy goes around claiming I was "spreading lies" when I pointed this issue out. Turned out that TGTSoft was the one who had patched uxtheme to support adding in executable code and this guy knew it the whole time. Absolutely atrocious behavior. <br /> <br />It´s hard to say which part was worse, using fake users to bash us while they officially stayed "above the fray" OR the dishonesty in denying that they had altered uxtheme to support executable code OR that they changed uxtheme.dll to support executable code without telling anyone why (I mean, what possible reason would anyoen have to do that? Or I should say, what possible legitimate reason). <br /> <br />There are certainly people who think I´m awful. But you have to at least admit that whatever positions I believe in, I post them as myself. I come on here to Skinbase as myself and defend or argue for whatever position that is. Same on dA and elsewhere. I could just as easily crank out a half dozen alias users here all attacking those who disagree with me while keeping my own name out of the mud. <br /> <br />A lot of people saw what was happening. You wondered why Style XP got bashed? Well that´s why. They bashed the competition long before the competition (us) even realized why they were doing that (I forgot to mention that before Style XP was released these guys were on Usenet bashing WindowBlinds). When you add up the fake users, the false insinuations on what their software did, the turn around and charging users after watching as their fans (and fake users one can presume) attacking us because we sell our software, and you get a pretty good picture. <br /> <br />But it´s more than that really. You indicated how you had used WindowBlinds for 3 years. That´s right, that´s because we´ve been working on it for many years now. Many years to create a real skinning program. So on top of what they had said and done, it was pretty galling that these guys (you said yourself) woudl be considered our "competition". That their marketing had fooled people into thinking they had actually made a skinnable program. If there is a "competitor" it would be Microsoft. <br /> <br />To use an analogy, if I were a video game maker, it would be like someone claiming that the patch to disable the copy protection of another game is my competition (i.e. that the patch is the competition and not the other game). <br /> <br />The proof for that is that you actually see "Style XP" sections on skin sites and you yourself "Want to support the developers" (assuming you bought Windows XP -- you did support the developers already). <br /> <br />One place I will give TGTSoft credit - Style Builder. It is excellent. But Style XP is snake oil IMO. And I realize some will see that as "competition bashing" (even though that means saying a patch is a competitor to an actual program) I am saying it as myself and not under some alias.
another_user
Member
Damn... u type to much :p <br />I´m pretty new here (as in just began to talk to ya´ll) and don´t want a fight with anyone :-) but the Frogdude is right......
moshi
Member
yep, better hack uxtheme.dll yourself as described here: http://www.virtualplastic.net/html/win_xp.html and send $20 to plastic, he did put far more work into Windows customisation than TGTSoft :)
craeonics
Member
Or better yet: send the 20$ to me and I´ll make sure polyesterman gets it. Honest.
frogboy
Member
The stand alone free patch is the way to go IMO if you want to use .msstyles files. <br /> <br />
frogboy
Member
Craeonics: Yep. Precisely.
frogboy
Member
CutTheRedWire: You´re entitled to your opinion and so am I. ChiChi had other posts before I made my response that talked about how Style XP was bashed and talked about "competition bashing". She´s enttield to make that post of course just as I am entitled to respond to it. <br /> <br />Apparently your concept of civil behavior is different than mine. Such is life though. <br /> <br />Getting back to formats -- WB´s format is a superset of msstyles. But from a skinner´s point of view, the limited features do have the advantage of simplfying the skinning process. <br /> <br />One of the other downsides is that msstyles only work on XP. Longhorn doesn´t have a "format" but rather a binary system (i.e. msstyles won´t work on Longhorn) presently. <br /> <br />As a skin format though, msstyles is outstanding in the way it is structured. It is much more consisten than the WindowBlinds UIS2/UIS1 format since it doesn´t have years of legacy stuff in it. <br />
another_user
Member
CutTheRedWire, <br /> <br />"Question: Is this like in winamp where the buttons are set, but tranparencey is freeform?" <br />-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br />yep as far as i know this part is correct.. <br /> <br />"Can you controll if edges are rounder, or in other shapes? How about alpha trans like ik if you made bedind the text translusent, but the rest of the skin solid? " <br />-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br />This part i don´t know,... <br />If you check some of the Vstyles made by WBskinner (you don´t have to like his "style") you´ll see there are some possibilities.... <br /> <br />Another_User
cuttheredwire
Member
Chickie : On topic but wrong thread :P One of these days you may get a new machine. Chances are it will have XP or Longhorns on it. Can´t hurt to learn a few things while you can. 8) Also, if you find a skin for styles xp you like, know it could be proted ovee to wb for your by a friend. 8) <br /> <br />I have to admit that the the limitations make for sleeker skins. Some WB skins are padded and bulky. I´m all for freeform, but this skin is going on every window on your machine. That´s a lot of padding, and some skinners just don´t take that into account. <br /> <br />Question: Is this like in winamp where the buttons are set, but tranparencey is freeform? Can you controll if edges are rounder, or in other shapes? How about alpha trans like ik if you made bedind the text translusent, but the rest of the skin solid?
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