Unfair....

Hi Chichi! :) ❤️ <br />I knew something smell fishy when John uploaded the Flora skin. I knew the graphics looked familiar. I downloaded Flora. Couldn&acute;t resisit. I hope things will get better soon, Chichi. What comes next? <br />

Hello CC <br />You have touched a sore subject of mine. Wincustomize has long been a thorn in my side. I was exiled for giving an opinion on Stardock. Not abusive, just an opinion. <br />I have never nor will I ever submit to them. I am sorry to hear of this situation with you. I have wondered where you have been. I DO hope things work out for you. <br />Perhaps if we all comment on these facts about the skin, someone over there will listen. Lets just flood them with cries of &quot;rip!!!&quot;

hey <br />i just noticed, hes from Texas, could explain his behavior :sss

I thought John was from England. :,

Hi chichi =) <br />(I hope you and your hubby are doing fine, nice to see you) <br /> <br />and yeah that def looks wrong, he does not mention even once your name??? <br />I know you said you contacted Wincustomize but have you contacted &quot;Jafo&quot; I mean &quot;him personally&quot; on this matter? I think he would jump to help you... <br /> <br />If he is taking full credit for Flora & Rainbow he must def have an extremelyyyyyy feminine side. hehe! (obviously those have 100% chichi written all over them) <br />ppl have grown accustom to your style and know those two are yours *sigh* <br /> <br />Hope you get this resolved. <br />Take care

Exile the frog here LOL lol <br />It has everything to do with wincusto, they allow the skin, I remember several cases like this on wincusto where when there was a dispute the skin was withdrawn from the library until the argument was settled :p

I&acute;m a bit confused here. How exactly is WinCustomize at fault here?

I have read all that was said @ WC including part2, and I see you have not loosened the screws on your helmet yet....... try it, things will become more clear :-) I&acute;m finished.......

edit double post

The screwdrivers are getting seasick at this moment :zzz

Frogboy, to make it simple - Chichi & John Grudger made skins together. He didn&acute;t give her CREDIT. When people made stuff together, they give each other CREDIT.

&quot;Again: How exactly is WC at fault? Your wife and another skinner both claim ownership of a set of skins. <br />It is not our place to act as judge and jury on that. The upload of the skin claims that they are his skins. The site that is in archive.org indicates that he gives credit to ChiChi for HELPING him. <br />It is a matter between your wife and John. It has nothing to do with WinCustomize (let alone me).&quot; <br /> <br />:::I&acute;m no admin (well, here or at wc), but to protect the copy rights of users IS your job. If she can prove she had some part in that skin, then she gets say over where it is posted unless he has written permission other wise. Collaborations should be agreed upon. It obviously isn&acute;t, but the user wronged happens to be someone you don&acute;t care for. I think that&acute;s playing into this big time. <br /> <br /> <br />Skinbase: what would you guys, yourselves!, do if this happened on skinbase?

Proof? what does she need DNA is this a formal trial? anyone who knows chichi and has seen her skins &quot;knows&quot; by a visual glance she was involved in making that WB, furthermore if you see some of the other older skinners work you know exactly who made what and those ppl are never second guessed but rather helped &quot;immediately&quot; so sad to see such double standards, regardless of personal probs between each other those should be ignored I think but then again, nobody ever cares what I think! hehe <br />/me goes sit in corner and pout...

Hi Red, <br />&quot;Skinbase: what would you guys, yourselves!, do if this happened on skinbase? &quot; <br /> <br />I have answered to your question in my post above ;)

Doreen and Co: <br /> <br />Do you guys have any idea how many skins, themes, icons involve help from other skinners in which the uploader comment contains no mention? Did Carlitius credit Moremgil for all the help he received? Do other skinners give credit to Treetog, Scratch, Green Reaper (good god, you would be shocked to know how many WB skins got help from Green Reaper and I mean serious help). <br /> <br />Heck, probably a third of the DesktopX objects uploaded use scripts that either I or Martin used and they make no mention. <br /> <br />And this is true on every site including THIS site. <br /> <br />Would it be nice if the author gave credtit to the people who helped him? Absolutely. Then again, I don&acute;t recall ChiChiGirl ever thanking Angela Marshall who spent many many HOURS helping her over the years. Or thanking Neil Banfield for tweaking some feature to hepl with her skin. Or heck, thanking me for personally looking at her skin to see what feature / issue made it act weird on one OS or another rather than making her just talk to tech support. Heck, I&acute;d be happy if she could just control her self and not post insults like she did right above (and later will claim how she has &quot;never&quot; flamed anyone). <br /> <br />Heck, Skinbase has an MSStyles section. That format is a derivative of the WindowBlinds format. The program is derived from WindowBlinds unique techniques (totally different from Chroma and eFX to name two). Did Microsoft give Stardock any credit for that? No. But there&acute;s a section here for MSStyles. <br /> <br />The issue is one of who has the right to distribute the skin. It is not appropriate for WinCustomize to arbitrate between ChiChiGirl and John Grudger. They should be handling that issue PRIVATELY amongst themselves. If she feels wronged, she should contact a lawyer and have him contact John Grudger. <br />

oh well I dunno just alil upset to see chichi&acute;s flowers all over that WB it looks like she did 99% of it and he did 1% of it (that flora one) hehe <br /> <br />/me hands chichi a bat w/ John&acute;s name on it! <br />and I&acute;m kidding of course calm down Brad and Co hehe =) <br />I just hopes it gets resolved... g&acute;luck you guys!

Even ChiChi, to my knowledge, doesn&acute;t claim to have made the skins. Only helped on the skins. <br /> <br />Should Mormegil claim ownership of every DesktopX object that is a zoomer because he literally showed a lot of those people who to create zoomers. <br /> <br />BTW, I am &quot;calm&quot;. As far as I&acute;m concerned, the issue doesn&acute;t involve me. <br /> <br />

I remember at John&acute;s WB skin site. His & her name were combine together - PalletChichi or Pallet-Chichigirl. I can&acute;t remember how the name combined. Is that another proof? :, <br /> <br />Chichi, I hope things will work out.

Frogboy, just for factfinding, the helping of the other people you mentioned, was it such that it has ended in the final version? Or just a tutorial how to achieve effects? <br />I think here we talk about a final version where bitmaps have been exchanged between two who co-operated on one particular skin aren&acute;t we? There is a difference. I know how WC fights the copyrights of authors, and maybe this flora will always be part in a dispute. You can&acute;t deny it&acute;s chichi like and also all other blinds uploaded by JG look different and more same in style. If you know something about artists, you should know they won&acute;t go for the same look every time, they change and try new things, they pioneer. Chichi is one of them. I even have seen you complementing one of chichi&acute;s skins. So, the best thing to do is to get down together and try to solve this in a normal matter, rather than shouting and use other examples and compare gurkins with pumpkins. Btw chichi said let it rest, she, together with JG know best what happened. <br />Like Jafo said, the best manner is to solve this by private emails.

oops double post, it wasn&acute;t that interesting

Lecrayon: <br /> <br />Your missing the main issue - collaborations, by their nature, are a fuzzy thing. It isn&acute;t appropriate for a site to arbitrate these kinds of things. It isn&acute;t our place to decide these things for two consenting adults. <br /> <br />This isn&acute;t a &quot;rip&quot; issue. It&acute;s a dispute on collaboration. There is nothing for me to resolve with ChiChi since I, nor WinCustomize, are involved in this issue. Collobarations on art and skinning are very common. What isn&acute;t common is for one of the parties to try to make skin sites arbitrate who has distribution or presentation rights. We&acute;re not a court. We&acute;re a skin site. <br /> <br />Such an issue can&acute;t realistically be resolved in some forum. I am only posting here because, as some here seem to not have noticed before assigning moral equivalence to the situation, ChiChi created this post about our site and went on to insult me. Some of you are so far into enabling her behavior you should not be surprised that she continually comes onto this forum to express the latest &quot;injustice&quot; or &quot;unfairness&quot; that someone (usually me in some form or other) has done to her. <br /> <br />Has it ever occurred to some of you that maybe your response to her should have been: &quot;This looks like an issue you should be taking up privately.&quot;? <br /> <br />Ultimately there are only two people involved: John Grudger and ChiChiGirl. It is up to them to resolve this issue. <br />

Lecrayon: <br /> <br />Your missing the main issue - collaborations, by their nature, are a fuzzy thing. It isn&acute;t appropriate for a site to arbitrate these kinds of things. It isn&acute;t our place to decide these things for two consenting adults. <br /> <br />This isn&acute;t a &quot;rip&quot; issue. It&acute;s a dispute on collaboration. There is nothing for me to resolve with ChiChi since I, nor WinCustomize, are involved in this issue. Collobarations on art and skinning are very common. What isn&acute;t common is for one of the parties to try to make skin sites arbitrate who has distribution or presentation rights. We&acute;re not a court. We&acute;re a skin site. <br /> <br />Such an issue can&acute;t realistically be resolved in some forum. I am only posting here because, as some here seem to not have noticed before assigning moral equivalence to the situation, ChiChi created this post about our site and went on to insult me. Some of you are so far into enabling her behavior you should not be surprised that she continually comes onto this forum to express the latest &quot;injustice&quot; or &quot;unfairness&quot; that someone (usually me in some form or other) has done to her. <br /> <br />Has it ever occurred to some of you that maybe your response to her should have been: &quot;This looks like an issue you should be taking up privately.&quot;? <br /> <br />Ultimately there are only two people involved: John Grudger and ChiChiGirl. It is up to them to resolve this issue. <br />

Let me clear some things up here for you Frogboy.... <br /> <br />1. As for &quot;your claim&quot; that I&acute;m Emailing &quot;EVERYONE&quot; who commented on these skins....... is a LIE........ You read to much into things and love stretching the truth or twisting it to suit you! <br /> <br />2. As for DianeKK, we have been &quot;Friends&quot; for 2 years now, I have bent over backward in helping her too, what I emailed her about is NONE of any one&acute;s business including you Frogboy......... <br /> <br />3. I Asked for credit where credit is due, I hope you can understand that,....... <br /> <br />4. Frogboy> Would it be nice if the author gave credit to the people who helped him? Absolutely. Then again, I don´t recall ChiChiGirl ever thanking Angela Marshall who spent many many HOURS helping her over the years. Or thanking Neil Banfield for tweaking some feature to help with her skin. Or heck, thanking me for personally looking at her skin to see what feature ........... <br /> <br />As for Angela Marchell/KramaGirl She has only helped me through your Customer Service department, spent many HOURS, well thats exaggerating it a bit LOL I have all ways THANKED Angela and have been nice to her......... <br /> <br />As for DavidK I gave credit where credit was due, he helped me with a coding bug, not making my skin, I thanked him very much over and over........ <br /> <br />As for &quot;Neil Banfield&quot; Sorry I don&acute;t know any one by this name....... <br /> <br />As for you Frogboy looking at my SKIN for help???? NO way, a BUG in your program, yes, and I thanked you for checking into the bug............ <br /> <br /> <br />5. Frogboy, You keep saying > Your missing the main issue - collaborations............. your wrong again, I helped 50-50 in making those skins and many more, I made &quot;graphics&quot;, my &quot;ideas&quot;, I did ALL the coloring, I did &quot;coding in the USI files&quot;.......... so Please if your going to make any statements get them straight! <br /> <br />6. I&acute;m also fed up with ALL your Lies about me, you are one of the most story tellers I have ever met, you also make so many untruthful statements about me, that it clearly shows your haterate.......... <br /> <br />Your circus over at WC with you shooting your mouth off about many things, shows your ignorance, heartless attitude........ Yes I&acute;m fed up, and SAD over double standards to suit what frogboy wants............. <br />

READ your emails carefully.... Take action, when action is due... When reading forums, make sure you understand EVERYTHING you read... So you don&acute;t put your foot in your mouth... <br /> <br />Admins here at Skinbase... If you don&acute;t want the typical WC circus to come here... you can close this thread... <br /> <br />After all my last post was deleted when I was EXILED from WC which read: <br /> <br />Ohhhhh!!! What&acute;s this??? Now I&acute;m next on the EXILED list???? That is a VERY easy way to settle a problem... <br />Have fun gang... This can be verified...

hehe not everyone from england is called john ;) <br /> <br />I must say, wow what a nice skin you made there... its a shame - you should get the credit !!!

It&acute;s too bad thatthe first time we hear from you in months is because of bad news.

Helloooo Lecrayon :-) Thank you for your compliments, John and I made these skins about three years ago if my memory serves me well, and its a shame that he is not man enough or a honest person to stand up to giving credit where credit is due......... BUT its a bigger shame that Wincustomize can stoop so low in private emails as to tell me that this community is laughing at me behind my back and also say that I have a mental problem and seriously need to seek help......... I also was given a mental help link by frogboy that I truly believe it was really sent to him by some one........ <br /> <br />Helloooo Doreen, nice to see you :-) ...... Yes I have emailed Jafo and DavidK back when the Rainbow skin was uploaded, and was put down that they don&acute;t believe me they believe John Gudger..... so you see PRIVATE EMAILS are for one purpose, so they can put down some one and not very nice either to make one mad so they lose their temper........ <br /> <br />Hello chickie :-) Yes John Gudger was from England, he wanted help to move to the United States and I see he made it and after my emails to Jafo and DavidK and the Frog I see John Gudger removed his site so that the proof is not visible on his screen shots that his c/drive showed my name on folders that work by me was done........... <br /> <br />Helloooo Orion :-) I had no idea you where Exiled too LOL, hey look at it this way...... If it weren&acute;t for the Frog exiling me, I would have still been slaving making free skins for him to get rich, I now have been selling my WindowBlind skins on a CD and getting back for all my dedicated work I did for a person who has little respect ! Very little do you hear him thanking the skinners and complimenting them on message boards, but ya sure the heck hear him moan and put people down and loves a flame.... I hear over 2 million people had visited his site, surely out of these 2 million he has made a goooood green buck? surely they all don&acute;t come there to just look LOL <br /> <br />I don&acute;t feel like a piece of garbage tossed aside any more, I just decided to bring myself above what they have said to me, I have received many emails asking me to put my skins on a CD, so in a long run the frog did me a big favor :-) <br /> <br />Helloooo Xenu :-) thanks for your comment, and I miss you all here too...... <br /> <br />and last BruB sweetie, I&acute;m not sure how to take your comment here he hee, but knowing you, yes its a shame....... my life has been tied up with my Dad since my Mother passing, he cries daily and looks just awful, hobnobber does every thing he can for him, replacing doors on the house, winterizing the windows etc etc and dragging himself down, I&acute;m tired..... But we both will be there for him, my brothers have absolutely nothing to do with him, one brother of mine lives 5 min away from him, as we live 45min away...... I always seem to get the crummy end of the stick, I&acute;m there for him and all he does is cry over them :-( oh well! <br /> <br />I miss all you baseheads, but between my Dad and trying to get my site onto a new server that has no limits has been just crazy for me......... but as Arnold says in his movies &quot;I&acute;ll be back&quot; Love you all........

What Frogboy & admins said is REALLY low. That&acute;s sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo immature & childish. WC has gotten worse. <br /> <br />For example, UzEE popped in. :o

Ya well, same old, same old. <br /> <br />Ola chichi! /me passes the sangria

=( chichi so sorry to read that first & second paragraph. why would WC say the community is laughing behind your back? WC does not represent the whole community to have said such a thing chichi so please do not be affected by something said like that, cuz it is &quot;Not true&quot; you&acute;re missed and your friends know &quot;you&quot; better than that and know you have something personal going on at home and as soon as that all gets calmed down you&acute;ll be back (cuz you love us too much to leave) hehe <br /> <br />don&acute;t sweat those e-mails ppl that say hurtful things like that have their own probs going on just give &quot;them&quot; a break too and ignore them... <br /> <br />I seen two skins that obvious have chichi written all over them, very surprised they were not removed but of course that is up to the admins not me or I&acute;d have tossed those two but maybe WC has rules written in blood over there that they themselves cannot even break???

I am very sorry to hear this dear chichi :( <br />The blame, for my opinion, goes to John who didn&acute;t respect your agreement! <br /> <br />All the skinning community sites, to reject an upload of a skin, need a link of the original work to compare it, I guess this is fair enough, but your case is very rare and maybe they don&acute;t know what to do at WinCustomize, I really don&acute;t know... if it was here at SkinBase, then your word is enough for us ;) <br /> <br /> <br />Take care chichi :) <br /> <br />

Thanks for your comment Adni18, but I have given sufficient proof to wincustomize when John Gudger - Pallet, site was still up and running, it showed my name clearly in the screen shots on his hard drive and Credit at the top of his site was given to me, we sent the skins (Approx 30 in all) back and forth until we got them just right, not only did I color them all I also made graphics and many of my ideas went into the skins........... <br /> <br />ALL the skins that have been uploaded at Wincustomize so far involve my work......... It is really a shame that their is a double standard at Wincustomize, a rip is a rip and not giving credit is not giving credit no matter WHO you are, what I see now it is a free for ALL for any one in the community to rip any one&acute;s skins and not have to give credit over there........ It will also discourage any one to help another skinner! <br /> <br />Thanks Doreen, and to the rest of you, your comments mean a lot to me.........

I got harassed by this Gudger guy by mail. Geez, I told him to contact you Chichi because you obviously didn&acute;t give permission to publish the blinds. He told me you haven&acute;t made any graphics for the Flora blind, and called you a silly woman. Well I gave him some comments on WC on that blind. He also said he would take &acute;further steps&acute; if I didn&acute;t apologize. Geez. Well anyway, to make it short, I see your hand in that blind, but can&acute;t speak for the others he uploaded. But since WC doesn&acute;t do anything I have withdrawn all my work there. What I suspected all along is that they do have a biased agenda and try to use other peoples&acute; idea&acute;s. I wish Wincustomize could be a self supporting site with no liaisons to stardock, for at the moment it is merely an advertisement site to show off their programs. The rating system is abused, all the admins get high notes on instant and some very promising people get low rates. Unless they can earn money from you by selling your work on CD, then suddenly ratings jump.

It is a shame. Sometimes, ya have to let it go & get over it. :( <br /> <br />I love WinBlinds, skins & artists. Some artists are evil villians. Some artists are nicey nice. You have to move on with your life. <br /> <br />Shit DOES happen all the time.

Chichi, I went to www.archive.org Way back machine site. I looked at John & your skins. There is a proof there.

Thanks chickie, but John gudger deleted everything on that site and all I could find for Proof of Credit that was posted http://web.archive.org/web/20020823200541/http://www.gudger.co.uk/ <br /> <br />I have all the proof I need of screen shots of his site with my name on his hard drive, all windowblinds I ever worked on etc plus all letters between him and I and also all letters with the Frogboy etc on a CD backed up :-) <br /> <br />As for forgetting and move on, I have moved on, BUT then there is what you call &quot;PRINCIPLE&quot; &quot;RESPECT&quot; and &quot;RULES&quot; of the skinning community sites........ and Wincustomize seems to think their above all of other skinning sites, I have LOST ALL Respect for Stardock/Wincustomize/Frogboy/CEO/etc etc......... <br /> <br />I hear you Lecrayon among many others :-) why would any one care to skin a program that makes monies selling it with little to no respect for the skinner or follow their own rules.......

Chichi, I will buy your WB skins CD when I have enough money. Xmas is coming. I know I&acute;ll get money. LOL I will let ya know when I&acute;ll send the check. :) Could ya please me your address. georgiejudd@yahoo.com <br /> <br />I don&acute;t use my surfglobal.net anymore. I screwed my comp. Almost lost everything. I&acute;m regaining. I will email soon. <br /> <br />Did you get Jazie & Kyle pics?

Nevermind the SurfGlobal.net I got it running now. LOL You can email at chickie@surfglobal.net too. ;)

Chichi, I am behind you and agree with you 100% <br />I know firsthand about life at the big WC.... <br />as it were....:( <br />You have my unconditional support..................... :grin:

Again: How exactly is WC at fault? Your wife and another skinner both claim ownership of a set of skins. <br /> <br />It is not our place to act as judge and jury on that. The upload of the skin claims that they are his skins. The site that is in archive.org indicates that he gives credit to ChiChi for HELPING him. <br /> <br />It is a matter between your wife and John. It has nothing to do with WinCustomize (let alone me). <br /> <br />

<center> <br />Sorry folks but the &acute;fun&acute; ends here. <br />Any futher disscussion on this matter must be kept on a personal level (<b>email!</b>) <br />This might piss-off some people but the line has to be drawn at some point. <br /> <br />--------------------- no posting below this line --------------------- <br /></center> <br />