Since when did photo skins become ok?

I mean....from my sense of logic, we have a responsibility to do all we can to protect peoples copyright or we can hardly expect to have the right to complain if someone breaches our copyright for our work.......someone tell me that makes sense! :congrats ;)

Red: I totally agree with you - photoskins are the scum of the skinning world. <br />Let&acute;s burn the lot and keep the &quot;community&quot; clean. <br /> <br />In been 8+ years in this &quot;business&quot;, and still have yet to see a nice photoskin.

PK: Nice find. SB policy actually IS against photoskins. I didn&acute;t know that. I&acute;m not sure what this means for skinbase today, but I think the community, esp the older guys like us, think they should not be allowed. <br /> <br />Snowman: Agreed 100%.

<br />&quot;...Pushed away by the flood of photoskins&quot; <br /><b>There is no flood of uploads anymore, there is a limit of maximum 2 uploads in one day, unless it is a theme. </b> <br /> <br />If the photo used in a photoskin is a rip, then the skin is a rip too and it will be moderated. <br />The problem is that it is difficult for Skinbase Moderators to know for sure if a photo is a rip or no... <br /> <br />For example, someone takes a sunset photo with his camera and then he creates a winamp photoskin and proudly uploads it in Skinbase because he wants to share it with us... What we will do? Moderators are not magicians to know if it is a rip or no... not easy to answer, because we must not forget that Photoskins is the first easy step in personalization, which we call it skinning in the next step, how can we disappoint a new skinner? <br /> <br />There is always another point of view, nothing is only black or white, so we are open to any suggestions. <br /> <br />New pol at Skinbase ;)

Nikos, whilst I agree with flexibility and encouraging newcomers, we should not be in the business of encouraging bad habits and some rips are obvious. Like superhero stuff and sports images that clearly have used a registered crest. I have been involved in the art field for most of my working life and illegal is illegal whichever way you stand it up. :congrats 😎 ;)

<br />Iain, I wrote above: <br /> <br /><b> If the photo used in a photoskin is a rip, then the skin is a rip too and it will be moderated. <br />The problem is that it is difficult for Skinbase Moderators to know for sure if a photo is a rip or no... </b> <br /> <br />We are not encouraging newcomers with rips, there is no conclusion of the oposite from what I wrote above. ;)

Or like the one with the baby from &quot;Dinosaurs&quot; (an old dsiney primetime show). http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35750 <br /> <br />Another blatant rip: http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35768 <br />And another: http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35688 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35647 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35646 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35620 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35619 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35583 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35564 <br />http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35563 <br /> <br /> <br />Photoskins should be treated with scrutiny. They need either permission or a link to the sunset photo in thier gallery. They need to provide proof, as this is a field of photoskinning is hard to determin the origins of. It seems to me they are just permitted blindly. <br /> <br /> <br />Here is another big company rip: http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35267 <br /> <br />Why are ppl allowed to used big named stuff without permission? It&acute;s copyrighted material, and a double standard.

Oh, and photoskin must come from a photo, so they have to be able to prove where the photo came from by the very nature of the skin. Whether or not it is a legit source is the question.

You have a point my friend Red and we understand very well what you are saying, <br />though, we are not investigators and we can&acute;t treat all the people as thief’s... <br /> <br />If anyone can prove that something is a rip, with prove where the photo came from, can inform an admin or moderator about it and SB will fix the problem, it was always like this... Moderators are not Gods to know everything.

Nikos, do you not agree that some images do not need confirming given the fact that if it is a commercially used subject it is automatically covered by copyright. Such as the Baby Dinosaur above and the NFL crests and Marvel comic book heroes. If in dfoubt it would take moderators less than a minute to google a name to get the creators site and most sites like Marvel state their conditions of copyright on the main page at the bottom. And yes I agree that moderators are not Gods and are indeed fallible. :congrats 😎 ;)

Hello and thanks for your post....I&acute;d like to think that there is room for both. Like Artur, I am strictly an amateur (but I give him a big edge, judging from his work) I never thought my my photos as anything but photos, not skins. And judging from the amount of downloads that I see some get, people obviously are enjoying them. I have always preferred a nice photo as a desktop wallpaper versus a design, with few exceptions. I currently happen to have a work from mountainhawk on my laptop that looks fantastic. In closing, I&acute;d like to think of each photo that I share as a small story to share - after all, isn&acute;t it that a picture speaks a thousand words? It is also fun to share things that people from around the world would not otherwise see. To all the skin designers I say keep doing what you are doing. Its great. And, God willing - I&acute;ll continue to do what I am doing.

No flooding anymore? Although I do like the two item upload limit this only works for the frontpage as it has loads of uploads every month. Have a look at this page, the most recent WinAmp 2.x skins; http://www.skinbase.org/section.php?sections=winamp Skin #17 is the first non photoskin! <br /> <br />EDIT: ok my fault, another one a bit more up. I overlooked that one between the photoskins (which btw are mostly, if not all, consisting of parts of wallpapers, game character gfx and gfx from tv shows. All easily identified.) <br />

Come on, It&acute;s YOSHI in half of those links. That&acute;s key Nintendo character since Super Mario World. No permission from Nintendo at all. <br /> <br />Further more, burned of proof lay on the poster, not the host site. All an admin has to do is ask where they go the image from. <br /> <br />Further more, the community will point out rips to help admins, as I have done. Those are blatent, obvious rips listed. They should be deleted. It&acute;s copyright infringement, against skinbase policy, and against the laws of many countries. <br /> <br />In addition to this, if this is too much work for the current staff (who I know work very hard to give us a great site we love which we are deeply thankful for), then perhaps this is a sign you need to add staff members. I&acute;m sure that many ppl would volenteer, and Skinbase could take thier pick of who ever they wanted.

I suspect they post them here because they would not be allowed on other sites like Wincustomize and DevART. The sites that do allow this sort of thing ,from my observation do not grow or wither...Get Skinned and TSS2000 being two examples. If we want to attract more people we need to have the right policies that allow people to protect their copyright.......that is a major concern for most artists at present. :congrats 😎 ;)

I&acute;ve held off on this for a while to see how this argument was going to pan out. <br /> <br />Copywrite is a sancrosnact issue I agree... but Iain the way you have placed your argument doesn&acute;t allow much room for those of us who use stocks... I&acute;m sure I would love to have a model to hand, but &quot;not&quot; having one I rely on a few amatuers who are happy to be photographed by their loved ones, yet make poses available to people like me who don&acute;t have access to a ready model. <br /> <br />I was a bit saddened that your argument implied that since people like myself are not actually photographing the model we aren&acute;t &quot;involved&quot; in the artistic process... I&acute;m sorry I don&acute;t agree. <br /> <br />At the risk of sounding weird I can tell you that there are some couples out there in the ether who [ and I don&acute;t wan&acute;t to question the pleasure they get from it ] are quite happy to pose for folks like myself who don&acute;t have a model... and it is a bonus to me. OK I don&acute;t take the shot, but I can pose it. <br /> <br />I apologise if this seems a bit loaded towards you, I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you have said, but please bear us less fortunate in mind. <br /> <br />Incidentally, that stupid application that makes it possible to put any image file over WinAmp should be seriously avoided.... well! it is Japanese....

In effect the sequence of these postings are so FU that it couldn&acute;t be a serious conversation... why does that happen on SB? <br />It&acute;s a Goddam&acute; shame that the postings don&acute;t get aligned correctly.... <br /> <br />[or it could just be that I&acute;m REALLY getting into c&w at the moment 😂 😂 😂 ]

*-*

MickelBlue: I don&acute;t know who Iain is, but I&acute;ve left plenty of room for stock. Link to the image and, if it is a stock site or has permission listed, your are set. I also feel that things are pretty civil. There is constructive critism going on, but no name calling or anyhting out of line. Valid points are being raised on both sides. <br /> <br />Adni: If I linked to where the character came from or a TV show image, but not that actual image itself, would that satisfy you?

You misunderstood me Mick.......I am talking about the blatant use of copyright material without permission....not stock images.Just at random I could go through the galleries here and find a lot of breaches to copyright. The ones I have found are either direct copies from copyright work with the copyright markings conveniently cropped out or they are corporate crests that also, if you visit the sites are clearly nominated and asserted as protected by copyright law or they are direct copies of protected works either as is or with a colour change. That is what I am on about. Not what you think I am on about. I am talking about actual legal breaches here. Stock images are okay as are images posed with permission. Any artwork that does not stem from your own hand or features someone else should contain permission for its use or at the least an explanation as to where it was derived. I am not asking for a Nazification of Skinbase or Basehead for that matter. Just simple respect for others work so we can claim the same for ours on a level playing field so no-one can accuse us of double standards or doing anything illegal. I am interested in protecting the interests of the site, its integrity and standing with the hope that it will encourage more people here. If you look at other similar sites a lot of artists are talking about rips and copyright protection. Too many people are beginning to think they can use any image they choose simply because it is the internet. I am sure if someone took a skin of yours and changed its name and colour and posted it without consulting you or mentioning you you would be pissed off. :congrats 😎 ;) .......I hope that clarifies things better Mick.

Adni18: <br />>There is moderation in Skinbase, for the New Members only, we call them &quot;friends&quot;! <br />>(and only for rips, viruses, pornographic or violence material uploads) <br /> <br />From a quick look at the most recent Winamp skins I see a whole list of photoskins. Wild guess, but from looking at the screenshots I would say all should be moderated according to the rips / porn policy. And btw, these are photoskins: http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35688, http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35750. This http://www.skinbase.org/rate.php?skins=35671 one is also in the most recent list, a skin where the author actually worked on and even took the effort to make a nice screenshot. Pushed away by the flood of photoskins. <br /> <br />Adni18: <br />>We at Skinbase follow the free style of Deviantart and not the heavy moderation style of Wincustomize. <br /> <br />That&acute;s new for me. It used to be a semi free moderation style here on Skinbase; Skins (and wallpapers ofcourse) for every application from here to the moon, good or bad. BUT no rips and skins made, and often uploaded like a tsunami, by photoskinapps (although I agree, that was never written down... www.Skinbase.info anyway?) but it used to be the general consensus between the admins). <br /> <br />>There are always the minus(-) and the plus(+) in every choice <br /> <br />Agreed, and while Deviantart has a good browsing system adapted to a constant flood of uploads of any size, quality and nature Skinbase does not. A large part of the browsing on Skinbase is based on the most recent stuff (just from watching myself and others browsing and interacting here), and from browsing archives. While this often works great it&acute;s quite annoying and generally hard to keep track of things when categories are diluted with uploads most people clearly aren’t looking for. If we do want to have the photoskins (and the like) why not create a separate category (or tag) for them? They are mostly Winamp skins anyway. <br /> <br />

Well, it depends. As an serious amateur photograher, I do not consider photography as a skinning element. However I think is nice, to post another form of artistry - BTW photography - as a way of share and communicate feelings, as for instance, doing nice wallpapers from scratch, on a computer. Let&acute;s say that in my humble point of view, photography - the way I do it and see it - is more instant and more instinctive: capture an image that strikes us and keep that image forever.What&acute;s wrong about that? Nothing.I only share my images here - because I love to be here - and in Photo.net.I do not care about ratings,I am here - and there - only for share. |O| |O| |O|

Completely agreed, Fred...but not on the - and I quote - &quot; I give him a big edge, judging from his work&quot;. And using your own words: You do what you do, I do what I do , and using my everyday quote: &quot; Nor better or worse,just different...&quot; Keep it rolling man: capture, share, enjoy. This is what this is all about. |O| |O| |O|

Artur - that makes alot of sense. Thanks, I&acute;ll do just that - and I know you will too. Be well.

Skinbase is &acute;free for all&acute; - no moderation on quality (sad for many, lucky for even more) <br />What goes on one site, might not go on another - eg. Wincustomize &acute;filters&acute; out photoskins. <br /> <br />My personal take on &acute;photoskins&acute; is: <b>they suck</b> - period.

hey snowman - why not tell us what you really think?? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with Snowman and Cuttheredwire. In my view, given the content of the post on Teknidermy, I thoroughly agree. If the work is not yours and if you do not have permission to use it, it is a RIP. It is by no means legal and is blatant copyright breach. This includes all the girly wallpapers that people make where an image has been STOLEN from somewhere else and used to the advantage of the new creator with no mention of the original artist or photographer. This also goes for cartoon characters or superheroes. All of these images are copyright. I see no talent in doing what amounts to a copy and paste job. I also consider that we, as artists, if we are to have our own copyrights protected and respected, we need to protect and respect others. If Artur was to find one of his pieces on or included in someone elses work without his permission or without him being consulted I am sure he would make no secret of being pissed off and quite rightly so. Nowadays the standard has really slipped and more often than not we find double standards running on sites which lowers the credibility and standing of the site in the wider community. It seems that nowadays it is okay to do as you please and to hell with respecting others. The old adage &quot;Do unto others as you would have done unto you&quot; rings especially true here. Rippers are simply freeloaders boosting their own image at the expense of others....bottomfeeders. :congrats 😎 ;)

Um... why is photography being mentioned? Photoskins don&acute;t have anything to do with photography. o.O; <br /> <br />And... um... I think snowman disagreed with me. O.o; errr... did he? <br /> <br />Personally, I think photoskins makes a mockery of skinners and skins. That, and they look like crap. I have no say in SB policy, though. Not that I should. It&acute;s just a bit of a shock for me. <br /> <br />I wish there was a photo skin section to keep them from poluting the good stuff.

Frankiy it would be nice to see all people happy to create their own original work. Problem is we do not live in an ideal world and cheats and rippers will always be with us. Each site determines its own policy. Sooner or later all will have to comply with the law on a global basis. Being non professional is no excuse. Try telling a judge you were just experimenting at robbing a bank to see if you could improve your thieving skills.LOL LOL LOL LOL.

Well...I did misunderstood your post Cutthereedwire. Sorry. :Happy

I guess I didn&acute;t understand what you meant, but now I do.

The whole text from Teknidermy: <br />&quot; Photo skins can easily be described as &quot;a skin entirely made up of photographs, usually of a pop star, vehicle, or product&quot;. There are many programs that make it easy for John and Mary Download to put the latest post-pubescent starlet on the surface of their fave program (winamp comes to mind). <br /> <br />If you want to look at your favorite car or cola all day long, that&acute;s fine. Just don&acute;t go uploading it to the skin sites. Photoskins are offensive and insulting to anyone who has worked hard to create something genuinely original.&quot; <br /> <br />I&acute;m not sure about the policy right now, but when I was a Skinbase admin I deleted every photoskin (mostly Winamp skins) that was uploaded to the site. And that&acute;s how it should be done if you ask me!

Ppl need to click links. >XD <br /> <br />I&acute;m in agreement with PK, that&acute;s no surprise there. That makes me wonder if the policy is there are allowed, or the policy just hasn&acute;t been enforced. <br /> <br />Another thing that bothers me is that they push good stuff off the front page. <br /> <br />Man, I wish I had a delete button.

I completely agree with PK.........HOPEFULLY.....the message will get through....amateurs or otherwise......ripping has no excuse. :congrats 😎 ;)

And being a designr of wallpapers ... I am staying out of this... and I am disapointed with Snow 😎

So far, I don&acute;t see anyone really in favor of them. Either they misunderstood, or are against them in thier heart of hearts. o.O;

<b> <br />There is moderation in Skinbase, for the New Members only, we call them &quot;friends&quot;! <br /> <br />(and only for rips, viruses, pornographic or violence material uploads) <br /> <br />We at Skinbase follow the free style of DeviantArt and not the heavy moderation style of Wincustomize. <br /> <br />There are always the minus(-) and the plus(+) in every choice </b> ;)

I agree..... adni18 is right on with this one.

Oh bloody darn hell! (or darn bloody hell)! I just had a look at the skinbase.info site and it actually has an entry on photoskins :-D <br /> <br />http://www.skinbase.info/faq/faq.php?t=sq&amp;uin=6 <br /> <br />While it&acute;s in the copyright section of the faq it does cover an important problem with photoskins; grand theft of pixels (and that&acute;s something many of us here are familiar with, noone likes it, so why allow it on skinbase?)! <br /> <br />And as I brought this up anyway; anyone want to cooperate on updating that FAQ? <br /> <br />Uhm, I&acute;ll stop now :adminpk

I can go with anything the majority wants. Being an amateur, and not experienced with drawing yet, I made rather crude logons with just standard buttons but photos I had permission for and nowadays at least I can take my own photos but its no problem to remove my own old stuff and I think if using images not by yourself even if they are all over the net already its possible to credit and avoid severe infringements of other folks copyrights. <br /> <br />If we advance to the challenge of drawing everything or at least using drawings with permits, why not? <br /> <br />Lately in general I think these sites are growing. <br /> <br />What some could be missing is an advantage we used to clearly have more of - a community with a mix of pioneers and beginners pulling the same soul togboat. <br /> <br />Nowadays its not a freaky, new, or revolutionary thing to customize a pc anymore. On the other hand, the art of doing it is more advanced and has many more shades - from amateur to superPro. <br /> <br />Tragically, people working on advancing their work and surrounding might not call for a system tolerating freakiness the amateur way and I am realizing how special the friendly concept is its own way. But how to unite that on the same site? Maybe with subgroups? Or sites? <br /> <br />The mix of different levels has its charm and is very good for serious beginners. Still, it should work without stepping on someone else´s respect or work. <br /> <br />When so many things have already been tried out a bit on the net, you could either say stop further plagiates completely or you could say oh well if this or that is done well and is successful its justified as much as all the other things that exist or even more than some of em. Hmh. <br /> <br />Many new users are young and think its bit easier to score than it is if you stay fair. And some just dont care. <br /> <br />Practically speaking, we already have certain guidelines which can be adjusted a bit for future things and the admins will probably try to please as many people the right way as possible if they are serious and good willing. There are solutions for suggestions, so thanks for bringing those in. Hang in 😎

<br />We understand what you mean Red, we don&acute;t need any link. <br /> <br />Personaly, I don&acute;t like Photoskins, but I can&acute;t understand why a young guy who is fan of a TV character, for example, and using this character in his photoskin makes any crime or rip... <br /> I think he is advertising the company that owns the character and no one thinks that he has create the photo himself. If the company will ask us to remove this particular skin from our database, then we will remove it. <br /> <br />This case is not the same with the case in which someone uploads a wallpaper or a skin made by another author with his name, in this case we have obviously an intentional RIP. <br /> <br />Though, this is my personal opinion only and I am sure some of you won&acute;t agree, <b> the Skinbase policy from now and on will be different, we will no accept any copyright infringements by photoskins any more, unless the photo used in photoskin is made by the uploader. </b> <br /> <br />

Good to see Nikos....that makes not only the site more secure and free from external legal threat but it also makes me feel personally more comfortable being a member here. I am sure it will be beneficial for all in the long term and I understand fully your difficulty with the decision and find it nothing short of commendable.! :congrats :congrats :congrats :congrats :congrats 😎 😎 😎 😎 😎 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :aw :aw :aw :aw :aw :aw :aw

I saw we had a poll relating to this. I just cast my vote and left a comment. Thank you. A lot of sites would not have done that. <br /> <br />My personal hope is that photoskinners get permission and get encouraged to make real skins. I don&acute;t know how to get a photoskinner to cross the bridge to becoming a skinner, but I think it is something the community should think about.

OK My gallery almost totally cleaned out 😁 Spring cleaning in fall hehe. Had permits but why set a bad example myself? Back to old DRAWING board (which is new) or my private trashcans. Timeout for learning photography + digital art. Not a bad trend. And good place to meet + learn things. Plus I can enjoy other peoples stuff while doing that. :brb